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- "IBM OBSERVATIONS" Conference 84.14797 MIKE GREENLY, organizer, about
- "WATCHING THE MARKET LEADER'S STRATEGIC DECISIONS AND REACTIONS IN THE MARKET
- PLACE" (answers: 148)
-
- Answer 135 (of 148) BK, on MON, AUG 13 1984 at 23:37 (2116 characters)
-
- * H O T S T U F F *
-
- Well folks, here it is, in the August 14th issue of PC Week: The PC AT! We
- were pretty close to the mark, I think. "The IBM PC AT Base Model 68, with one
- 1.2 megabyte floppy-disk drive, will sell for $3995..." "Model 99, with a 1.2
- megabyte floppy-disk drive and a 20 megabyte hard disk, will cost $5795. Both
- models will use a 6 MHz 80286 microprocessor." "Also to be announced is a
- networking package...". "The PC AT will offer users 256K of standard memory,
- upgradable to 512K on the motherboard... and as many as five additional 512K
- add-on boards can bring total memory capacity to more than 3 megabytes..."
-
- Other goodies include a new keyboard with real Return and Shift keys, and
- status leds for Num, Shift, and Caps lock, a 36-pin expansion connector for a
- full 24-bit address, 16-bit data bus that still manages to be compatible with
- existing PC peripherals (!!), a new version of MSDOS (3.0) with networking
- support (but no multitasking), and at least two versions of Unix - Xenix 3.0
- and ??? (they think PC/IX, but noone that knows anything definite is talking).
- MSDOS 3.0 runs in real mode, which limits you to 640K (my guess - the absolute
- limit is 1 MByte, but I'm assuming you need the same memory space for video &
- ROM as on an XT), but Xenix will apparently run virtual, giving those of us
- who believe in writing *big* programs a bit of room to rattle around in! The
- expansion bus, by the way, includes two slots that are 100% compatible with
- the old bus, and 6 that have connectors for the expansion bus, as well. That
- should only cause problems on those boards where the designer ignored the
- board blank that IBM nicely provides in the Technical Reference Manual, and
- tried to squeeze an extra few inches of real estate along the very bottom of
- the board. Unfortunately that includes IBM's own Color Graphics board, and my
- Qubie' modem. Shore was nice of them to include those two cheater's slots!.
-
- I W A N T O N E !!!!
-
- FOR SALE: 1984 Porsche 944, Guards Red, complete with sunroof, 5-speed,
- AM/FM/Cassette, leather seats, and IBM PC.
-
-
- Answer 136 (of 148) BK, on TUE, AUG 14 1984 at 21:35 (4596 characters)
-
- Well, today was, indeed, the day. Called up the Sunnyvale product center
- around noon, and shore 'nuf, they had all sorts of information on the PC AT.
- In fact, they even had one on display! So I wander on down, and just follow
- the crowd. And there it is, surrounded by a crush of about a dozen techies,
- with another dozen scattered around talking to salesmen, mostly techies, but
- quite a few marketing types. All told, there must be thirty people in the
- store, a record for any computer store I've ever been in.
-
- And it turns out PC Week is right on the money about the hardware -
- floppy-only system is $3995, hard disk (20 MB)/floppy is $5795, including
- 512Kb, a Keyboard, and a Parallel/Serial Interface. About the only things not
- included are the monitor & video interface, for which anything that works on a
- PC will work on an AT, in at least two of its eight slots. The 1.2 MByte
- floppies, by the way, can read stuff written on a PC, XT, or jr, but
- apparently has a bit of trouble writing stuff to be read on the older drives.
- A 360Kb drive is available, however, for $425. Other hardware options
- announced include a 256Kb memory kit for $495, a 512 Kb memory board for
- $1125, a 20Mb hard disk drive for $1595, and a 1.2 Mb floppy drive for $650.
- An 80287 math co-processor is $375, and a second Serial/Parallel Adapter is
- $150. The hard disk is full height, and the floppies half-height. The AT looks
- to be about an inch wider and an inch higher than an XT; the hard disk/floppy
- interface card takes advantage of the extra height, so forget about using it
- in an XT. They're only claiming three times the performance of an XT, but I
- suspect its more like six for compute-bound programs (we'll see when the
- benchmarks start coming out).
- But the real news is that they've finally dropped the other shoe, and are
- announcing a real Local Area Network for everything except the PCjr. It's a 2
- Megabit, broadband, tree-structured network with CSMA/CD (carrier-sense
- multiple access, with collision detection), using standard cable-tv coax. It's
- mid-split, so it requires a single PC Network Translator Unit for the entire
- network, at $595. Each station on the network (up to 72 allowed with standard
- IBM hardware, 255 with custom engineering) requires a PC Network Adapter,
- which costs $695, and a copy of the PC Network Program, at $75. Cable is
- available from IBM in 25, 50, 100, and 200 ft. lenghths, with prices ranging
- from $29 to $99. Maximum distance between stations is 2000 ft. Unfortunately,
- the network won't be available until early 1985.
- The software announcements accompanying the AT had a few surprises for me,
- mostly pleasant. First, as PC Week announced, MSDOS 3.0 does indeed support
- the AT and is available now; unfortunately, that's about all it does. Network
- support won't be available until MSDOS 3.1, early in 1985. As expected, MSDOS
- runs in real address (8086 emulation) mode, and can only support 640K for user
- programs; it can, however, use memory above that amount for a RAM Disk - one
- called VDISK is now included in the package.
-
- PC/IX, it says deep in the fine print, will run on the AT (version 1.1), but
- only in real address mode - the only OS announced that supports the 286 in
- virtual mode (which is the only way to access memory past 1 Mbyte, unless they
- put in some sort of bank-switching kludge) is XENIX! It seems awfully strange
- to me for IBM to be supporting two different versions of essentially the same
- variant of Unix; there is also no mention of XENIX support for the network,
- which really doesn't make sense. I've got a sneaky feeling that IBM is saving
- a few surprises till later. XENIX' pricing, by the way, answers my previous
- request for a more reasonable price structure; the basic package is $395, with
- a separate Software Development package for $455 and a Text Formatting package
- for $145.
- The other significant software announcement is a program called Topview, which
- sounds like IBM's answer to Mac; it features windowing and pop-up menus, and
- is sold as an End User Product for $149, with a Programmers Toolkit for $395.
- Unfortunately, it also won't be available 'til 1985.
-
- At least a dozen of us put our orders in while I was there, so I'm sure IBM
- has already sold the first 3 to 6 months of production. If I'm lucky, I figure
- mine will be my Christmas present to myself. And if they can get half the
- software they've promised out by March or April '85, I really think they'll
- have one helluva winner on their hands.
-
- BK
-
-
- Answer 138 (of 148) DAVID KNOPF, on TUE, AUG 14 1984 at 22:40 (122 characters)
-
- There is no question in my mind that the AT is the most important machine IBM
- will release in this decade.
-
- David K
-
-
- DISPOSITION-> for "IBM OBSERVATIONS": Next, Write, Other?
-
- Answer 139 (of 148) BILL VOSS (A PRINCE), on WED, AUG 15 1984 at 00:58 (4816
- characters)
- IBM Apologist Analyzes AT Announcement
- The IBM PC/AT Model 5170 will use the Intel 80286 high performance
- processor running at a leisurely 6 MHZ.
- There are two models of the 5170 - Model 68 ($3995) and - Model 99 ($5795)
- As usual this is an unbundled price, that is for the chassis and keyboard
- only, minus the display adapters and monitors.
- Total Memory is expandable to 3 Megabytes
- Features:
- High capacity 1.2 Mbyte floppy drive (double sided 96 TPI)
- 20 Mbyte fixed disk (std on model 99 - opt on model 68)
- Fixed disk and Floppy disk are driven by a common controller
- 512K on the motherboard
- Combination serial/parallel I/O board,
- 8 slot chassis,
- Improved keyboard,
- Clock/calendar built-in,
- System configuration storage with battery backup,
- Keylock,
- BASIC in ROM,
- Standard memory 256K for model 68, 512K for model 99
- Sound system,
- Bi-directional keyboard interface
- Switchable power supply 110/220
- Power on indicator
- Socket for 80287 arithmetic coprocessor
- OPTIONS
- 128k upgrade kit
- 256k upgrade kit
- 512k upgrade kit
- 20Mbyte fixed disk
- Second 1.2 Mbyte floppy
- 360k floppy
- 80287 arithmetic coprocessor
- Serial/Parallel adapter
- Serial adapter connector
- Prototype adapter
- Floor standing enclosure The High-Capacity 1.2 Mbyte diskette drive will
- read PC 180K and 360K diskettes but probably will not write them, thus
- the need for a 360k floppy drive option. The 3 Mbyte upper limit for memory
- seems a strange limitation, it's most likely an artificial one that
- will disappear eventually. An additional 20 Mbyte fixed disk may be
- added to the system (in the same chassis). The 512k on the motherboard
- is implemented currently by using piggybacked 64k chips (kinda kludgy). The
- combination serial/parallel board is nothing special. The 8 slot chassis
- is a big improvement, but the slot arrangement is strange. It's designed
- to accommodate both the old PC cards and the new bus which has a sixteen
- bit data-path (at last). The built-in clock/calendar is a welcome and
- overdue change (some clones have had this feature for some time). The
- clock/calendar's battery backup memory will be used to store something IBM
- calls a system configuration (god only knows what purpose it serves or what
- sneaky programmers will do with this). The familiar on/off switch is now a
- keylock, which is now available for the PC as well (Dad, can I borrow the
- keys to the computer?). BASIC is still in ROM more than likely to maintain
- compatibility.
- Unfortunately IBM has once again chosen not to include the arithmetic
- coprocessor with the system, thus limiting the likelyhood that software will
- be written to take advantage of it.
- The sound system has not yet been explained, I hope it's better than the PC's
- "sound system".
- Conspicuously absent (contradiction in terms) was a new graphics card, this
- is astounding considering the limited capability of the present card.
- Instead the Monochrome adapter and Monitor and the Color Graphics Adapter
- and Color Graphics Monitor will be offered as standard equipment. IBM has
- two new highly superior graphics devices available one is supplied with the
- 3270 PC (but is not available separately) and the other is the GX machine
- with 1024x1024 color graphics controlled by a very fast graphics processor,
- why are we still using the old cards? I dunno, let's ask IBM.
-
- The keyboard has been enhanced by the addition of mode indicators for Caps
- LOck, Scroll Lock, and Num Lock (see they're responsive, slow, but
- responsive). They've also relocated the shift keys, again (I`d just gotten
- used to the old keyboard, oh well). apparently they've not decided to move the
- cursor control keys to a separate location, they're still merged with the
- numeric keypad (haven't they ever seen the TI PRO keyboard?).
-
- Well all in all it looks like a great machine destined to further shake things
- up for AT&T et al. With the price differential, it looks as if there's still
- lots of life in the PC/XT yet. Price competition could get pretty fierce very
- shortly. The only thing that worries me is compatibility with the existing
- software base. For that I'll have to wait till the 28th when I get my hands on
- the little bugger. Looks like Apple is losing ground rapidly, well they can
- always scalp tickets for a living. Bill Voss (a prince) P.S. No I don't know
- what a bidirectional keyboard interface is, but it sounds kinda sexy, don't
- it? I'm sure once I get one, I'll wonder how I ever lived without it. In the
- meantime I'll have to live with my unidirectional keyboard whatchacallit.
-
- Answer 140 (of 148) FSL, on WED, AUG 15 1984 at 19:45 (258 characters)
-
- Folks, one of our tech editors at Popular Computing got his evaluation unit
- today, and will have his review done in about a week or so (he doesn't plan to
- sleep much.)
- I'll try to weasel some tidbits from him as the week progresses.
-
- ---FSL
-
- DISPOSITION-> for "IBM OBSERVATIONS": Next, Write, Other?
-
- Answer 141 (of 148) Z{*}, on WED, AUG 15 1984 at 23:53 (70 characters)
-
- what about an efficient c-compiler for the unlimited memory model??
-
-
- DISPOSITION-> for "IBM OBSERVATIONS": Next, Write, Other?
-
- Answer 142 (of 148) BK, on THU, AUG 16 1984 at 00:30 (2030 characters)
-
- Bill - Unfortunately, 286's that will run faster that 6MHz are incredibly rare
- today, and liable to stay that way for quite some time. While the original
- data sheets casually mentioned numbers like 10 and 12MHz, most of what they're
- making today runs out of steam at about 5MHz; the yield at 6MHz is apparently
- something like 5 or 10%, meaning that IBM can get them but noone else, but at
- 8MHz its a tiny fraction of 1%. If we're lucky, AMD will figure out how to
- make them run 8MHz before Intel does, but I'm not holding my breath.
-
- As far as I can tell, the only reason for the 3MByte restriction is that the
- biggest memory card IBM is making is 512K, and there are only five slots with
- the expansion bus left (the floppy/hard disk controller takes one). Everything
- I saw said there were a full 24 address bits going out the bus, giving you an
- architectural limit just under 16Megabytes (assuming the video RAM and adapter
- ROMs address space hasn't changed). I'm not sure if you can use the old-style
- slots for memory, but I doubt it - you'd need a few extra chips on the
- motherboard to handle it, and it would slow down the CPU something fierce when
- you tried to access that area of memory; though come to think of it, they
- probably will have the circuitry in there, since adapter ROMs will want to
- work the same way they do now. You still wouldn't want to use an 8-bit memory
- board, though; it would really be a shame to cripple what sure looks like a
- haul-ass machine! The technical reference will tell for sure, but that's
- another thing I'm not holding my breath for.
-
- By the way, it looks like your earlier fears about a change in the
- distribution policy were unfounded; my local Computerland claims they can get
- a machine any time they want. Also, I think I found out why we had our code
- names crossed - it seems IBM intentionally gave out a different code name to
- everyone who got any early info or machines, so they could track the leaks
- more accurately! "Big Top" was apparently the real code name.
-
- BK
-
- Answer 145 (of 148) BK, on THU, AUG 16 1984 at 23:25 (914 characters)
-
- Just amazing how well they've got things choreographed - even little old
- Computerland of Evergreen got a machine yesterday, complete with glossy promo
- literature that didn't say anything interesting (that stuff never does). Got
- the store tech interested enough to read the numbers on the crystal, though,
- and it is running 6MHz, fer sure! Still no sign of a technical reference
- manual, unfortunately. One interesting thing - there is exactly *one* (count
- it) switch on the entire motherboard, to choose between color & monochrome
- monitors! That's it, sports fans - all the other garbage you used to have to
- set the switches for must be buried in that little battery-powered CMOS RAM,
- or something!
-
- One blow for compatibility - Lotus 1-2-3 runs! Though I read over in POST that
- Flight Simulator doesn't. Somehow I don't think IBM really cares too much
- about the games market on the AT...
-
- BK
-
- Answer 146 (of 148) MICHEAL GILSON, on FRI, AUG 17 1984 at 00:49 (370
- characters)
-
- WELL, IF FLIGHT SIMULATOR DOESN'T RUN, WILL OPEN ACCESS? HOW ABOUT OTHER
- DREAMY GRAPHIC PROGRAMS? I'LL JUST BETCHA IBM SCREWED US OVER (WHY AM I
- TALKING LIKE THIS? WE PROGRAMMERS GET MORE MONEY THE BETTER OBFUSCATED THE
- TECHNOLOGY BECOMES --- FORGET I SAID ANYTHING --- IT'S A HUGE TECHNICAL
- ADVANCE WORTHY OF PEOPLE REPLACING THEIR SOFTWARE LIBRARY AGAIN.
-
- Answer 147 (of 148) LOUIS, on FRI, AUG 17 1984 at 09:12 (452 characters)
-
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